AJ Davis:  Hey everyone, welcome to the Experiment Zone Podcast. In today's episode, I speak with the founder of Golf Track app, Igor. We're going to walk through his target audience and how they're using a freemium model to connect with customers and show them the great benefits and how much fun they can have with a golf simulator. As usual, we're going to take a look at his website to understand how they're connecting with customers and how they can boost conversion rates. Let's get started. 

Welcome to this episode of the Experiment Zone Podcast. This is AJ Davis, and we are featuring another exciting guest, Igor. Would you like to introduce your business and yourself? 

Igor:  Thanks  AJ, so I have an app. It's a seven year old startup, so just launched commercially. It just took seven years to actually get it to market, called Goldtrack.app. I do have a background in E-commerce. I actually sold my E-commerce company last year. So, a bit of background there. But the app is a golf simulator, and we built a Shopify store for it, because we were in a recurring sort of model where we sell, there's a free version and there's a freemium so you can subscribe to play golf simulation courses. That's an extra subscription. So that's what we kind of sell on our website.  

AJ Davis:  You've kind of been through the ringer on this before. Why golf this time around?  

Igor: The last one was golf too, actually. It was a golf simmer at a company called 24/7 golf. So it was manufacturing. I was reselling other people's technology, and I was also manufacturing my own. I had factories in China manufacturing things like the enclosure, the screens, the hitting mats, all the accessories, HDMI cables, etc. So selling a full package.  And started in Australia probably because of my accent. I'm not a native Texan, which is where I live now, in Dallas. the US Europe, sold a company last year, and now I've moved really to pure digital play, where the app is downloaded for free, it's on the App Store, and then it's still in golf simulations. Just now, there's no more hardware, there's no more manufacturing, it's all purely digital.

AJ Davis  So who are the folks that need this, or who are the folks looking for this?

Igor: It's a great question. So my kind of ideal target, and there's a little bit of difference to kind of where I was to where I am now. So the previous business, you know, the typical price point was about six to $7,000 so it's quite like an avid golfer is the typical customer. You know, they're quite serious. So they're going to invest that kind of money to put a simulator in their garage or their media room or whatever, with the app. It's really a different market. It's a fun market. I call it the top golf market. So anyone who goes to Top Golf, you know, it's kind of like my ideal market, you know, people who just want to hit a ball, you know, they kind of like golf, but they're not really golfers. You know, they're not like I am a golfer. I'm obsessed. I, you know, crazy about it, etc. I'm not even my own target market, but there's so many millions of people, especially, you know, post COVID Golf has grown, you know, tremendously. And a lot of those people entering the golf market, they're not serious golfers. They want to, you know, have fun. They want to be easy, to be, you know, very accessible. And that's really the market I'm after. Is the fun, easy, Top Golf kind of customer? Does that make sense?

AJ Davis:  Absolutely, yeah. And so tell us how it works. Like, how do people use it in their lives? What does it do for that fun, Top Golf type customer?

Igor: Yeah. So, you need, like, a tripod, which this is from Walmart for like, or Amazon for seven bucks. And then you need one of these, which is obviously the iPhone, and it, you know, you put on a tripod about the driver length, behind the ball. And when you hit the ball, you know, into a screen, into a net, into a driving range, anywhere it basically, you know, we build proprietary AI algorithms to attract the ball in 3d space as it's moving. And we use that data, then to be able to show you the data, so you can kind of see the just numbers if you want to see that. But then if you obviously subscribe to, you know, simulation, you can play, you know, any golf course in the world. And in fact, you could actually play Top Golf, you know, at home. There's a YouTube video on my golf track YouTube channel where I'm playing top golf on a PC with a Golf Track at Top Golf itself. So you can have a bit of fun with that. But it's really kind of try to take that experience of experience of Top Golf and bring it into your home, or your your backyard, or, you know,

AJ Davis:  And is there a social component to it, like Top Golf

Igor: There will be, there's definitely going to be. We're still working on that. And, you know, there's where the companies we integrate with for the simulation, they have their own social kind of component. But it's not as, you know, it's not as seamless and like, like something you know, like, you take all the sort of the major, you know, social networks, you know, like x or tick tock, etc. It doesn't kind of have that or snap, doesn't have that ease of just shareability and stuff. So something we want to develop in the future ourselves,

AJ Davis: Nice and so what do you think standing in the way of people signing up for? This is converting to the subscription right now.

Igor: So I think one of the interesting things is that we ran an experiment for about 15 months. We had an open, free beta, right? So we asked people to download it, and we didn't do any marketing. It was just word of mouth or a couple of news articles about us, and we managed to get over 12,000 users to actually download it and try it out. And we use that, obviously, to prove things. And then earlier this year, we launched a full commercial version, with a Shopify store that basically, kind of says, Well, you know, for free, you get this, which is great if you want to play courses, you know, this is what you know, $99 a year, up to 299, a year. So, you know, very reasonable subscriptions. I think the main thing is that people kind of, they quit. A lot of people question, is it actually, you know, is it real? Like, does it actually work? Is it actually, you know, is it actually accurate? Yeah, because there are other devices out there, you know, that cost anywhere between, you know, $700.15- $1,000 and some people kind of compare to that. But the main is, like, does it actually work? And that's what we're trying to really, I think that's what we're trying to work through to kind of get that conversion. But we're still, you know, we're still fumbling a little bit maybe.

AJ Davis:  So tell us a little bit about how the website fits in with the app. Why might someone find the website to begin with? The

Igor:  Apps are always in the App Store. We're doing some app store optimization, but it's free, right? So you can download the app and you can use it for free. You don't have to subscribe to anything. You don't actually even have to go to the website to use it, et cetera. So what we try and do is create a journey that basically takes people that sign up and then lead them for an email journey and you know certain prompts in the screen itself, in the in the app itself, to go to the website to check out these simulation options, because people are familiar with golf simulation and what's out there. You know what software is out there already. So whether you buy, like, a 2000 or $3,000 device, or you download a Golf Track, we actually can use the same salt. You can buy the same software and cost the same so, you know, for example, $299 gets you this, this e6 connect package. Now, whether you have, like, a flight scope or a Track Man or, you know, a Golf Track, you're still paying $299 but, you know, we get, you know, they pay us commission for selling their licenses. So that's kind of how that's our commercialization model. And so the user, for the user, it's actually, it's free, like they don't have to spend this $1,000 they'll be paying this 299 anyway. So it's a really great deal for the golfer.

AJ Davis:   Loves it. So what I want to do now is share. Share the screen. This is my favorite part of this, right? We're going to look at your site with fresh eyes. I have just barely looked at it before our episode today. So you're gonna get off the cuff. Here's a fresh perspective. Gonna go ahead and get that started right now, you're

Igor: a golfer at all. Do you like golf? Just out of curiosity? Yeah,

AJ Davis: I love the question. I'm probably a good target audience for you. I'm definitely a top golf kind of golfer. I've been on a real course just a handful of times in my life, but I love doing things with friends, and I feel like if a friend invited me to do golf, I would be all over wanting to really know how to do it before I even went out there.

Igor: It sounds like you are the perfect target market. So yeah, you started saying things about

AJ Davis: all the simulators I've been in some of those stores where I've seen it done, they look really neat, but I've never done one before. So I think our skill gap is really helpful in doing this analysis, because I'm coming from this as someone who you know would be interested in getting better, but would have no idea about the other things on the market. Fantastic. So taking a look here, why would I find the site? Tell me a little bit. Is that coming from your email? Your email campaigns?

Igor: Yes. So we've got 20, 30,000 people. We're sort of actively emailing. We have more, but we're scaling staging. The scaling part, we're also looking at doing paid ads, both Google and Facebook, Instagram, to drive traffic in Target, again, like I said, sort of the top level of customers to really profile that someone like yourself and saying that you can have kind of the messaging is, if you never thought it was possible to have a simulator, think again. This is the site to go to if you've ever had that thought cross your mind, but thought is unattainable,

AJ Davis: Yeah. And, you know, part of the question I have, as I'm thinking about it, is, like that intersection between a golf simulator and top golf. And the question that kind of is in my head, that maybe you can help answer for listeners, is, is it kind of like being able to play golf at home? Is it kind of like a video game? It's kind of

‍

Igor: like a video game, yeah, it's like a video game when you're playing with real clubs and real bowls,

AJ Davis: Yeah. Okay, great. So it's bringing that real life experience hands on. Here's my real swing, but also here's a fun element of seeing how it would play out on the course. Perfect. All right, so taking a look here, I. I am. First of all, I'm seeing the email sign up. I like the kind of level of intrusion there where it's not huge, but I'm able to see that there's something there. I can see the headline of your own golf simulator using the words that you're using. It's now in your pocket. This message feels pretty central to folks who maybe have already done this before. So maybe in your target audience, you might want to come up with a message here that speaks to that gamification aspect like that. Maybe there's something really fun about seeing your game play out on other courses or in other real life situations. So maybe speaking to play at home, but being anywhere in the world might be a way to kind of think about that interaction there, transforming your phone into a launch monitor with no extra equipment for free. I'm not quite sure what that means, so I'm going to kind of keep exploring here. I can play virtual golf and download the app as the two calls to action here. I like the phrasing here: play virtual golf and download the app. It starts to give me a sense of like, oh, that What's In My Pocket is the app. And what am I going to do? I'm going to play virtual golf, and I'm kind of missing the piece of why do I want to play virtual golf? Maybe it's just to have fun. They used to have fun with my friends. Maybe it's like experience courses that I will never be able to see in real life. I need to practice those courses. Maybe have fun with my friends, but thinking about that qualitative experience and bringing in this hero would be helpful. Your phone is now your very own golf launch monitor on the lot, on the go monitor to get accurate swing data, I'd love to see a little bit of it because of the accurate swing data. So what we want to do is say what we do, who it's for, and then why we want to work with this particular company or app.  And I think accurate swing data sounds like it could be good for a maybe a more avid golfer, but maybe for someone like me, I don't really care if my swing data is accurate, I might want it to be accurate within the setting see how you'd really do on such and such course. Can

Igor: I actually ask a question? That's a really interesting point. So we have an idea and a hypothesis that our early adopters will be the more avid golfers who just can't afford a simulator or don't want to invest that kind of money, you know, etc. But at the same time, I really like talking to you as a kind of target customer who doesn't really care about accuracy, because, you know, you're not really here to be, you know, you know, winning skins. So how, how do you feel, you know, do you think those messages can be combined somehow for both target markets, or do you need like, some kind of, like split to address both? Yeah,

AJ Davis:  It's a great question. If there is a split needed, you know, then you can start developing a landing page really targeted at a specific audience. So if you're investing dollars and getting paid ads for the top golf golfer, you'll probably want to curate a much more specific message for them, like, bring the fun of top like, outperform your friends next time you're at Top Golf. That would motivate me. I would like to be able to meet everybody. And so that's the kind of message where, if I saw that right at the top, I'd go, oh yeah, that sounds great. For $3 a month, I can get all this experience and like, really show off to my friends next time. That's great. That being said, we do want to have a unified message on a home page, because it's meant to say, like, what the product does in whole, who it does it for and for golfers is great for recreational golfers and people looking to improve their game. Maybe it's golfers looking to improve their game as kind of a general enough category, but I would try to look for the unifying thread to be able to have on a home page and then have more targeted experiences that you're pointing traffic you might know more about where you really get really specific into what you're saying. Thank you, connect and play virtual golf, challenge your friends, check your progress and improvement. Those all speak to me, that's kind of how I like to move through my hobbies. So I like this idea of having this game where I can interact with other people. Maybe I can bring it into my next top golf experience. I don't know how specific you can be in mentioning something like Top Golf, but maybe you can kind of tie that gap between whether you're on the course or doing something like Top Golf, you'll be better next time you do it. And then getting started. We've got some information about how to get started. No expensive hardware. Connect to virtual golf. Okay, those make sense. It's all on your phone, and means you can track shots on the driving range, indoor enclosures, outdoor nets and even a putting green. I kind of like this phrasing of like, kind of pointing to why an app versus other things in the market? So this might be the kind of message to bring home for the more experienced golfer who might be willing to pay to have those other experiences, but maybe they also want to be able to do this in their backyard to practice before they hit the course. So again, it's kind of we can speak to both audiences, because golf is that common thread improvements the common thread, and I think things like what kind of metrics you have, like tracking shots while you're out there, as well as when you're practicing at home, can kind of tie that story together overall. One of the things I wanted to point out before we go too far, I'm on a pretty small screen, but I think even in that case, I'm starting to lose some of the calls to action here. And one of the really important things we always want to make sure our site does is let people know what we want them to do. So in this case, I see home Play feature support download. I saw them play virtual golf, and the download of the app was below the fold for me, we want to just make sure that it's consistent. So if really, the thing we really want people to do is to download, then having a larger call to action that reflects the same color here is really going to draw attention better. So to make sure to mention that. So I'm going to click through that experience. So we're going to take a look at how playing golf creates a world of golf possibilities. Here's the subscription, the connector and another connection. So tell me a little bit about how we talked about the subscription. Tell me about these two connector options.

Igor:  Yeah. So actually, both of those are so different between the one on the left, so e6 is when you buy through us, you get the, you know, you get the license code, and we kind of sell the software on behalf of the company that makes them right. And you kind of get a full end to end process that you can run through within the app. The other two is, you need to go buy the software somewhere else, because, like the game, you need to buy the game somewhere else. And then when you play golf, you need a thing that connects that game to the Golf Track. So hence the connector. But you know, the fact that you asked the question obviously is not clear enough on the page, which kind of answers that question pretty easily, right? Yeah, I think

AJ Davis:  I want to be handheld a little bit more through that, particularly if you're working with someone who hasn't done any golf simulators before, and you may also find someone who is like, I already have one I love. How can I do what I'm doing with you through this other tool? So I think while we're I can see you're, we're using, like an out of the box product listing page here. This is probably a place to just add a little bit more context. Kind of have a product image with a little description of who it's for benefits, and then you can kind of move, maybe it goes like a beginner, and then the more advanced options underneath. This could also be a journey where you have a single landing page where the action at the bottom is the one that makes the most sense for them, but I think for sure, in this page, we're missing some context. So I'm going to take a look over here. My subscription access to courses, courses. Oh, and I can upgrade to more courses. So these are number of golf courses, I assume Correct,

Igor:  yeah, 99 actually, yeah. So the first 199, next one, sorry, $99.05 courses. Then 299, 27 courses. And look, to be honest, they expanded was That's 599 a year. Again, like 100 but, like, I don't think people are really gonna buy that. $600 Yeah. You know, they're just not gonna buy that if they're just getting a free app. You know, the 300 I think, is the biggest span that we could, we could ask for, which is the second option, the 27

AJ Davis:  Yeah. And, you know, again, coming from that perspective of, like, the more novice golfer, I may not exactly know what it means to have these different courses and like, what the benefits might be to them. So you might want to start talking about not just the subscription, but you know, is it that I want to have 27 because they're more challenging, or, as over time you're going to recommend which ones to do, or can I master them all? Is it a challenge to be the best at all 27 courses? So I'm looking for a little bit of that information. I see the frequencies here as annual. I see a lot of the subscription details. I'm gonna kind of look through the page a little bit to see what I can find. So it's not just about playing golf, about enjoying every moment, fun and focused, verbal and fun. I actually really like these reasons for connecting, and I think some of this could live on the homepage. So again, it's the what, who and the why. I think these might be some of the reasons that we were missing on a homepage. Oh, I like seeing it. The modes. Yeah, some of this imagery is really good and helpful to kind of understand what it is that I'm getting. I'd love to see more of that at the top. And partly why I missed it is an easy fix. So good news here. So again, screen size matters, and we also want to see what it looks like on mobile, but the thumbnails being below the fold or below the image, de-emphasizes them for me. So one of the design choices you could make is to have them on the left side, or even just a really simple solution of having the right and the left arrows to let me know I can interact and move through it. I think there's a lot of information that can come out of these images, and it's a little bit of work right now to find it. All right, I'm going to add to cart. Take a look. Got my shopping cart? Are there any types of upgrades or upsells or anything that you want people to do? Straightforward,

Igor:  not really yet. It's pretty much, you did buy one of those, and that's it. You know, we have a lot of activities. So we have email journeys. We also have in app activation. All of that is pretty much well covered outside of the website. It kind of starts an email journey as soon as you check out. And this is just using recharge, you know, plug in through Shopify.

AJ Davis:  Yeah, I think in that case, you probably can skip the shopping cart. So one of the questions I often see is, you know, do we take someone to cart? Do we do the sliding cart? Do we go to checkout? And in the case where we're not trying to share information with a consumer about something else they may need, or something else that they might want to upgrade to or a shipping threshold. In this case, I think if you just take me straight to check out, I'll understand why I got navigated there, and then I'm ready to go and I'm not missing anything. So we often see drop offs at each of those steps. They'll just smooth out those decisions. I've added to cart and now I'm checking out. Perfect. Well, we are almost on time. I love going through these times so fast. Tell me, Igor, what are three things that you will think about? What are three things you're going to do to drive conversion as a result of our conversation today? Sure.

Igor:  So I think the above the fold conversation is written, but so I think we have to redesign to have a lot more of the critical information above the fold, especially for someone who doesn't understand or doesn't know golf simulation, like yourself. So you got interested in things when you were scrolling. We need that interest to be peaked at a higher point in the page. So I think that's critical. I think smoothing out the straight to checkout is an easy love hanging fruit. And I think, I think I like what you said is like, break down the information to, like, a beginner, like me in a mid level and a pro, like, like, begin an amateur Pro, whatever, but however we structure it. I think it's like, so that you can self identify very quickly and you get handheld, you know, on point with that. So I think that that's really great. Thank you. Fantastic.

AJ Davis:  Well, last question today, where can people jump in and how can they find you? Well, besides

Igor:  obviously going to the website, Golftrack dot app, easiest way to find is on LinkedIn, and you can also email me at Igor at Golftrack dot app, Golftrack.app

AJ Davis: fantastic. Thanks so much for being on and sharing your site. We wish you the best of luck as this product continues to grow and develop. Thanks. AJ, I appreciate it again. Thank you for tuning in to the Experiment Zone Podcast. You can check out more episodes on YouTube, Apple Spotify and your favorite podcast apps. Check out the show notes for any websites Linked In this episode, including where to connect with us on social media. We appreciate you tuning in. Remember to Like subscribe and turn on your notifications so you'll be updated of each episode release and visit us at experimentzone.com for all podcast updates as well. Thank you for dropping bye